This conversation came to mind recently when I read that author Anne Rice has in her words, "quit Christianity." Here is part of her explanation:
For those who care, and I understand if you don't: Today I quit being a Christian ... It's simply impossible for me to 'belong' to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I've tried. I've failed. I'm an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.Volumes could be written about the ideas Rice has presented here, but I hope to keep this to just a few brief thoughts.
As I said below, I quit being a Christian. I'm out. In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of ... Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen.
My faith in Christ is central to my life. My conversion from a pessimistic atheist lost in a world I didn't understand, to an optimistic believer in a universe created and sustained by a loving God is crucial to me. But following Christ does not mean following His followers. Christ is infinitely more important than Christianity and always will be, no matter what Christianity is, has been, or might become.
When I read this story, I felt a deep resonance with it. I, along with almost every Christian I know and I would guess many others, have felt Anne's sentiment many times. We've felt love for Christ and disgust at his followers. We've felt embarrassment when some popular Christian figure utters hateful words or indignation when our non-Christian friends lump us in with some prevailing Christian stereotype. We've felt misrepresented and abused by organized religion. We've suffered hurt at the hands of other Christians and hated Christianity for it. We've seen hypocrisy over and over again by people who claim to follow Jesus and wanted nothing to do with them.
Once, during the beginning of my freshman year in college, I seriously considered the idea of just forming a whole new religion, with Jesus at its center. Abandon everything about organized "Christianity," including all history, names, and language. Call myself something completely different. Make a clean break.
But I couldn't. Because I felt Christ himself wouldn't allow it.
You see, all of Christianity is predicated on the notion that everyone, including Christians themselves, are sinful. We have a natural proclivity towards all the things I hated Christians for. And instead of abandoning sinners, Christ called us to love them. "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Even the anti-gay, the anti-Democrat, the anti-science. I realized that much of my desire to abandon Christians was rooted in a belief that I wasn't like them, that I was less sinful than they were—but everything I knew about Christ told me I wasn't. When I realized this, I wrote about it in a post called "The New Hypocrisy."
But there's more to it than that. God designed us to live in community with one another. Community is messy. It is full of messy, hurt, confused people. And Christianity is the largest, oldest community we have. I'm not suggesting people should stay in communities or relationships when they become abusive or members refuse to repent, but I am suggesting that there is no perfect community, Christian or otherwise. I was never going to find a religion or belief-system full of perfect people by abandoning messy Christians. The world is woefully messed up, and throwing my lot in with a small group of humble Christians has gained me so much more than abandoning them ever could have. As Jascha Heifetz said, "No matter what side of the argument you are on, you always find people on your side that you wish were on the other."
There's even more to it than that. It hurts me to hear Anne Rice tell the American public once again that mainstream Christians are "anti-gay, anti-feminist, anti-artificial birth control, anti-Democrat, anti-secular humanism, anti-science, and anti-life." Some of the staunchest Democrats I know are Christians. Some of the brightest scientists I know are Christians. My own wife is a glorious, unbounded Christian feminist. I could go on. These wonderful people have had a profound impact on me—as a Christian. I know this probably goes without saying, that there are many Christians who are not "anti" these things. But it hurts to hear this contradicted publicly.
Despite all this, I can't blame Anne. I'm not blaming her. She's absolutely right when she says following Christ doesn't mean following his followers. Amen to that. I often feel pulled to abandon Christians, just like her. But I've also come to believe that the one thing this "quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group" has going for it—Christ's forgiveness and redemption—is worth aligning myself with. I choose to live in community with these quarrelsome folks because I know I am quarrelsome enough myself, and Christ's redemption is what binds us together, as it did our Christian ancestors. I understand and commiserate with Anne's decision, but I'll stay for now.
Image: Los Angeles Times
Update 8/28/10: Anne Rice shared this post on her Facebook page with the following comment: "One more commentary from Justin Scott on my decision to walk away from organized religion. Let me comment briefly. I don't feel alone. I think the Body of Christ is not limited to any one church, sect or group, or to those who call themselves 'Christians.' It includes all of us who believe in Him. (And I appreciate Justin's gentle and generous approach.)"

Im with you Justin. Often embarrassed, upset and sometimes mortified- and still in church. You might get a kick out of knowing Anne Rice tweeted this article and that's how I found your blog.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate this intelligent approach to the subject. I recently left the church after a life time. I could not take one more hit of evangelical embarrassment against the Jesus in my heart.
I even had prophetic dreams that included conversations with him about what I needed to do in my part of our relationship. The answer was to leave the church because of my distraction with the people and the culture that was hurting my relationship with him. So, I left, 9 years ago.
It was worse than a divorce I went through 20 years ago.
So, I always appreciate a conversation such as yours Justin. It means the world to me after what I have endured. My family is still very much in the dark side of the evangelical movement. I was raised in it and all it's rabid, legalistic, arrogant darkness.
Have you heard of the Gospel of Inclusion? Google it and listen to the archive piece from This American Life titled "Heretic" about Bishop Carlton Pearson. It changed my life. I still cry when I hear that piece and it's about 4 years old now.
Bless you for sharing this.
I agree with you both. I have experienced all that and more. In fact, just two days ago, I was told I was going to hell by Southern Baptists whom I used to go to church with, because I believe that most Muslims are peaceful and loving people, and I was defending their right to build a community center in NY. I have been called vile names and attacked because I am progressive in my thinking, because I believe that government has no right to be involved in the abortion issue, though I am pro life. I believe in gay rights, I believe in equal rights, and I believe that a woman can be in a pulpit. I believe that Jesus gave us two commandments to live by, and that the judgment and condemnation of others breaks the second of those.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Justin. You made me think. I cannot continue to be in the community with those I just mentioned, but I will continue to be in a community with Anne, and you, and all like minded people who believe in Christ. She may leave the organized "Christians," but because she believes in Him, she will still always be his follower, and therefore, by definition, a Christian, yes?
Like you, it broke my heart when Anne announced that she was leaving the church, and since then I have been following most of the links that she has posted on her Facebook fanpage regarding other people's comments on her doing so. Today it was yours.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that there seems to be some sort of understanding out there that Christians come in all stripes, and as such it's only fair that we must love them for what they are, in spite of what they are, and stick together.
Thanks for writing :)
So refreshing to read your article, Justin, and the comments. A question that has bugged me for the past 10 or so years is, "what if we got it all wrong about church and how it should be for the past 2000 years?" A book by Mark Strom "Reframing Paul" that I read a few years ago suggested some answers. Maybe (and I'm still thinking this one through) the organization we have called church for the past nearly 2000 years is nothing more than a Christianized version of an amalgam of Jewish/Greco-Roman political, religious and educational sturctures. Possibly Jesus and Paul were calling us a to different corporate expression of what it means to follow Jesus in community but we couldn't bring ourselves to break away from the familiar institutions of religion, education and politics and so, by the end of the 1st century, we had lost the original vision for how we should operate as a corporate expression of following Jesus. Maybe? I wonder. Church as we know it still works for many people - there's no denying that. But, I've discovered (after being born into the church as the son of a pastor and then becoming a church leader for 30 years) that I'm not one of those people for whom it works. So, I've become part of the ever growing band of people, like Anne Rice, who have chosen to walk away from church as we know it and walk into a 24/7 lifestyle of following Jesus.
ReplyDeleteAnne i love this truth i am so glad to see you standing up for what is right!!! We support you because we have been affected by it's misinterpretation Of christ!!!! Light & Love
ReplyDeletelike your blog!
ReplyDeleteI can appreciate what you say, Justin. Not unlike Anne, I separated myself from those who call themselves "Christian" a long time ago, because it's just not in me to be so hateful, hate FILLED, hypocritical, and a dozen other things that Jesus Christ taught against.
ReplyDeleteI think my biggest issue with today's "Christians" (and YES! I ALWAYS use quotation marks when I speak or write the word) is that they have replaced God with Jesus. I understand that some "Christians" believe that "Jesus IS God"--but not all do. I NEVER heard that in any of the denominations I attended "way back when", and I honestly feel they have made that move (putting Jesus in God's place) to justify their tireless stance that "they" don't believe in the "right God". It's not really about God to them, it's about ritual and prophet. GOD created EVERYONE. God also put them in different parts of the world, in different climates, with different circumstances, and different rates of civil, social and technological advancement.
Christianity is really a "late-comer" to the field of religion, and it's historical roots have much more to do with power and politics than God speaking to any one person or group of people.
I've also come to the conclusion that there is a finite number of times an individual can be told they're going to hell, and I passed that number around the age of 14. (I was first "going to hell" because I'm left-handed...and that's Biblical.)
Regardless what religion an individual chooses to associate him or her self with, God knows each of our hearts, and that, I believe, is much more important than any dogma or doctrine.
(I appreciate this post, and will probably peruse your blog more thoroughly later. I'll get back to you on the "like/dislike" issue.)
;-)
After leaving christianity completely, I appreciate it a lot more now than I ever did before. Not the belief system in itself, but the effect it has on christian people. The positive effect on a person's heart is the aspect of christianity that needs to be preserved above all other parts.
ReplyDeleteI have to tell you, although I have met many genuinely good people who were Christian, members of my family among them. I haven't really noticed Christianity or even being religious at all made the bulk of the group treat people any better or more compasionately than they would have otherwise.
ReplyDeleteIn fact just the opposite the ones who were good people were good people because they started that way and/or were taught to be...
There are closed-minded and judgemental people on all sides- right, left, christian, atheist, etc. It seems to me though that it hurts worst from the Christians (at least for me, as a Christian) because my expectations of them are higher. I and many others continue to miss the whole point which is that Christians need Jesus in the first place because of all those terrible things that disappoint us. Will I really pretend I am not all of those things too (in reverse)? My challenge is this-can I love my brothers and sisters in Christ who embarrass me or who I disagree with as fully as I have apparently been expecting them to love me?
ReplyDeleteVery well written.
ReplyDeleteThank you Justin. As a pastor, I have to say that this is exactly how I would answer those who ask "Why do you bother?" It is a mess, a strange, confusion, and occasionally miraculous mess that I feel I must continue to explore.
ReplyDeleteJustin,
ReplyDeleteThis is the second (third?) blog of yours that I have read and I want to thank you for being so respectful of Ms Rice. I also want to thank you for making clear to me some things that were murky in my mind. I feel that you are so right in saying that in Christ we love all. Even "Christians". In all my anger and embarrassment, (I don't even allow people to label me with that word), I forget that I am a disciple of Christ. If they are good enough for God's love- as everyone is- then they are good enough for mine.
Now if I can just remember that while I'm being threatened with hell... ;)
One of the discoveries I've made on this journey with Jesus is that for many of years I've been involved in an institution that practices alot of religious rhetoric that has no biblical foundation whatsoever. In fact much of what we define as "being a christian" is NOT "being a christian" at all...it is more acurately the definition of being a pharisee.
ReplyDeleteI read a really good book called PAGAN CHRISTIANITY by Frank Viola and George Barna which caused me to question practically everything I had been doing for most of my life.I have always had a strong desire to know Jesus more...and naturally I went to "church as we know it" to find Him. I searched there for years and years and finally found Him...not in the 4 walls of a rusty ,cranky often mean-spirited religious institution but right where I am.There is life all around me, there are encounters with other believers all around me, there are opportunities to live out what I believe all around me.
Yes, I have left institutional religion or "church as we know it", I have no need to go to a building where I am programmed to build and support an antiquated system that produces little more than man-idols and religious superstars...This does not mean that I am not connected, I think most of us desire to be in community with other believers. I have found that it is good to be with like-minded people but I am not threatened by those who question... why? In fact by questioning I think that you are more apt to arrive at truth.
It's refreshing to see someone that is a "Thinking Christian" and not a simple consumer of some man made dogma.
ReplyDeleteA large part of what bothers me about "Christianity" is the staunch belief that whatever brand is followed is proclaimed as the only "True" religion. God is too large to fit inside one religion.
I've heard it attributed to Gandhi but am not certain he said it. "There are as many paths to God as there are people on the planet".
To question things is good. At least in my opinion.
Thank you everyone for your kind and thoughtful words.
ReplyDeleteToby Neal -- Thanks for the heads up!
TheGladGirl -- I'm so sorry to hear about the pain you have suffered. I'm glad my words encouraged you. I have not heard of the Gospel of Inclusion or the TAL episode you mention. I'll give it a listen.
missourisongbird -- Yes. I would encourage you to explore ways in which you can share community with those who don't believe as you do. It has certainly opened my mind and my heart.
Dawn -- Thank you for commenting! So good to hear from you again.
Emma -- Precisely.
Great post and comments by all. In my experience, when you're not apart of the community, there's certainly less conflict, but also less personal growth.
ReplyDelete"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
Justin, I love how you never stop questioning, never stop doubting, and yet in your doubts and questions are a trust, a hope in Jesus. I'll never forget Winn telling us that God is big enough for our doubts, he isn't scared by them, he can handle it.
ReplyDeleteI'm also glad you've chosen to stick it out. I keep coming back to the picture of God perusing Israel as they continue to turn from Him, continue to choose created things rather than creator God, yet He never gives up. We are quite a ragamuffin group called the Church, but if God can love us, I'll keep trying too.
Though I know many Christians differ, if MAINSTREAM Christianity were not everything Anne Rice says it is, then why do ALL of the most popular and public leaders are those things Anne accused them of? None, I mean NONE, of them differ from the stereotype she described. Certainly Catholics don't, and you CAN lump them all together much more neatly than any other sect because they are the one that has an "infallable" leader they follow very literally and unwaveringly. Even to the point that significant amounts of them don't stand up and leave, either to another Christian sect or take Anne's route, when a massive systemic evil within the community's leadership is exposed. It seems Christians just want to belong to something popular more than anything else, it doesn't really matter to them whether it's good or not.
ReplyDeleteI have been a friend of yours Justin for a long time, and never before have I felt your blog was getting the recognition it deserved.
ReplyDeleteCheck out the 121 comments you got from this post being shared by Anne Rice on her facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/justinis#!/posted.php?id=66435815451&share_id=145866225445354&comments=1#s145866225445354
I am impressed. And I think labels can misrepresent the individuals within the group. For instance, being a women does not make me a bad driver, does not make me not funny, does not make me less intelligent. The individual is the individual is the individual.
I am impressed that your stance to to remain a part of the Christian community despite all of this. Perhaps you do truly love unconditionally.
Hi Justin. One more 'thank you' for your thoughtful and wise response to Anne Rice's decision. After hearing her interviewed on CBC the other day, I experienced a mix of thoughts and feelings which you have captured and expressed with great skill, nuance, grace and wisdom. And I am delighted to have found your blog from visiting Anne Rice's Facebook site. From the perspective of this old sinner who depends on the grace of Jesus, you have hit the nail(s) on the head in your reflections. Listening to Anne's interview, I was reminded of some musings of Annie Dillard in "Teaching a Stone to Talk"around her experience of attending church: "A high school stage play is more polished than this service we have been rehearsing since the year one. In two thousand years, we have not worked out the kinks. We positively glorify them. Week after week we witness the same miracle: that God, for reasons unfathomable, refrains from blowing our dancing bear act to smithereens. Week after week Christ washes the disciples dirty feet, handles their very toes, and repeats, It is alright--believe it or not--to be people. Who can believe it?" (p.20)
ReplyDeleteI have not yet read your "The New Hypocrisy" blog, but suspect I will also find much that resonates. Are you family with Bruxy Cavey's "The End of Religion"? (cf. http://www.theendofreligion.org/). If not, I have found his thinking to be deeply helpful and refreshing around the issues this posting is exploring.
Keep up the good work and God bless you.
Barrett
So if your neighbor built a boat and you went out on the water with him and it began to sink would you stay with the boat and sink or remove yourself and swim toward land. If you swim toward shore, you'd be alone, but your friend would still be your neighbor. Association with the messy Christian group is still possible whether you meet with these Christians in a steepled building or the coffee shop. Anne is not leaving the neighborhood just a man made sinking boat
ReplyDeleteTo all the new commenters, thank you too for your kind and thoughtful words. This has been a wonderful day thanks to Anne and you.
ReplyDeleteAvatarmn -- I don't believe all popular and public Christian leaders match Anne's description, but I too wish the Catholic Church's response to the exposed evil in their midst had been more humble, repentant, and strict. I'm sorry you feel all Christians just want to belong to something popular. I hope that's not true of me.
Alyssa, Harrison, and Austin -- Well said. Thank you, friends.
Barrett - Sounds like Annie Dillar is paraphrasing Martin Luther's "If I were God, I'd kick the world to pieces." I've felt that many times. I am not familiar with "The End of Religion." Thanks for sharing.
sallyrob -- I guess I don't think the ship is sinking. And I think there's more to church than a steepeled building. But that's another post. :)
I left Christianty over a decade ago. It was difficult at first. I was brought up in the church. I have always felt that I was forcing myself to believe. I asked myself: Do I believe parthenogensis was possible in humans 2000 years ago? The answer was NO. Do I believe that a human being can be both human and God? The answer was NO. Do I believe that people are born sinful and need atonement? The answer was No. Do I believe that it is possible for God as classically defined to die. The answer was No. Do I believe in God as he is classically defined. The answer was No. I could not in good concscience remain in the church. I left and now ten years out I have more peace of mind than I ever had. Being free of all the guilt, I no longer need it's cure. Is there a God? I am as certain as I can be that the God of my upbringing does not in fact exist. Is there any kind of God? I don't know. I am open to good evidence.
ReplyDeleteJustin, name one popular and public Christian leader who isn't everything Anne said they were. I mean, like on the scale of any Pope, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, Rick Warren, even Joel Osteen. Just name one really popular guy who isn't all that. And then, try to answer why someone who wasn't all of that can't become popular with the mainstream, if the mainstream isn't like that.
ReplyDeleteI believe you are what you say you are, Justin. I'm not trying to say that. Just that you are an outlier. Not at all mainstream. And God bless you for it.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
ReplyDeleteAccurate.
Good.
anon -- I guess all I can say is it sounds like you're not a Christian. It is certainly a lot to believe.
ReplyDeleteavatarmn -- I don't think Rick Warren fits the description: http://guessworktheory.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-rick-warren-and-melissa-etheridge.html
Ben -- Thanks, brother.
Note to Avatarmn about naming "one popular and public Christian leader who isn't everything Anne said they were."
ReplyDeletePart of the difficulty lies in how 'Christians' get to be "public" and "popular." For better or worse, one factor is the attraction of public media to extremes. E.g., for every thoughtful and gracious Christian leader quoted in media around any given issue, there are probably 100's of outrageous pundits who are delighted to speak on God's behalf (as Pat Robertson did vis-a-vis the Haitian earthquake). Thus the Florida pastor of a 50 member church who gets international media attention around his plan to host a Qu'ran bonfire on 9/ll anniversary.
(I expect there is a similar ratio between quoting moderate mullahs and imams and quoting radical and outrageous spokespersons for Allah.)
All this to say that, at least in my experience, Justin is less of an outlier than the media presence of "Christians" might suggest. In a very good NYTimes Op-Ed piece, David Brooks (not a Christian) made a similar point in 2004: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/opinion/30brooks.html.
I have been privileged to get to know 'outliers' like Justin in more than 100 nations. They don't get much press time, but they are quietly endeavouring to be faithful to Christ within their spheres of influence in ways that are truly gracious, generous, and inclusive.
May their tribe increase!
Barrett
Well said Barrett, and thank you. I'm a big fan of Brooks.
ReplyDeleteSo if you meet a man in a pastel suit
ReplyDeleteWith an alligator Bible to match his boots
You might not like his style too much
But if he could reach a soul you could never touch
You gotta say...
"Peace in the Valley" by Noel Stookey
Anne Rice is very very self-righteous to think that way. Yes I understand where she is coming from, but that does not mean you give up. Christianity is religion of horrible people being redeemed by a perfect savior. To give up because Christianity has problems implies that she knows better (Prideful, even though she might which is a gross sin).
ReplyDeleteShe says that she is quitting in the name of Christ. That is BS. Completely BS.
If God worked that way, we would all be in hell. For her to say that is wrong and ignorant, and it paints an inaccurate view of God. She does not get Christianity if she is giving up on it in the name of Christ. That sentence totally shows that she does not at all understand what being Christian is like.
Christ says that people will know that you are Christians because you love Christians. Rice obviously needs to rethink this.
By the way people this blog wonder why Christians think that there's is the only true religion. First of all, there is one form of truth, and second of all, Christianity makes claims that is the only true religion and to belief otherwise is deny the basic doctrine that only Christ can save you.
So, Rick Warren compares homosexuality to incest and pedophilia in public, then Melissa Etheridge reports he said some nice things to her face... and Rick Warren goes on to never repeat those things publicly. Nope, he he definitely doesn't count.
ReplyDeleteAnd what Barrett said about the media basically backs up my theory that religious figures are popular because they're famous. He said the media likes to show people saying outrageous things, not nice things, as if saying outrageous things automatically makes you loved, and a leader. Well, maybe in Christianity...
ReplyDeleteIt automatically makes you loved by the media. Christianity, I'm not so sure.
ReplyDeleteHere are a few other popular Christians I think defy the "antis": Donald Miller, Barack Obama, Anne Lamont, Brian McLaren, Bill Hybels, Rob Bell, MLK, Madeline L'Engle, Marilynne Robinson, Mother Teresa, Jim Wallis, Wendell Berry. There are more of course, that's just off the top of my head at this moment.
But even if they didn't, I think (hope?) I'd still be a Christian.
And the greatest of these is love.....
ReplyDeleteavatarmn..in response to naming one leader...Billy Graham
ReplyDeleteI didn't recognize most of those names, Justin... Only Obama, MLK, and Mother Theresa. Upon looking them up, Mother Theresa remains the only one who's primarily known for religious work, the rest are known for something else and happen to be Christian. They are not "Christian leaders".
ReplyDeleteMother Theresa never considered herself a leader, as Catholic and a female she was exempt from that honor. She escaped a lot of the anti labels because she mostly kept quiet. However, she did make outrageous statements like contraception and abortion are "the greatest destroyer of peace today". I can't even begin to understand what the hell that means.
And as for Billy Graham, he put on a great public face, but these statements were discovered on Nixon tapes...
"They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff. The Jewish stranglehold on the media has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain."
"The Synagogue of Satan."
"A lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances."
I would encourage you to check out the ones you don't know.
ReplyDeleteAs I said... I did look them up. They are all either not Christian leaders per se, or are obscure. I never said there weren't some progressive Christians, I said there weren't any leaders that were household names.
ReplyDelete"Justin, name one popular and public Christian leader who isn't everything Anne said they were."
ReplyDeleteJim Wallis is on TV regularly (he is often derided by Glenn Beck on his program), Bill Hybels is the pastor of one of the largest and most influential churches in America (17,000 members). Rob Bell has been called "the next Billy Graham" by the Chicago Sun Times and Brian McLaren has been named one of the "25 most influential evangelicals" by Time Magazine. I disagree with you that MLK and Mother Teresea's ministries cannot be considered Christian, because in my view they were motivated by Christian principles and beliefs.
But I suppose I'll have to leave it there. All of these people are sinners and if we wait long enough one of them will probably say something ugly. That's the whole point of my post, the Christianity is not about being perfect, and forgiveness and redemption are central and crucial to the message of Jesus.
I've been thinking a lot lately about what it means to "be a Christian," and I think there's a big idea we (modern evangelical Christians) are missing. I hear a lot about people's "personal faith," or "personal relationship with Christ," but I just don't think that's the message of scripture. Let me explain a bit. Going back to the covenant God made with Abraham, God has always been about creating a people. That "people" (nation, family, body, etc.) was sometimes in exile, sometimes disobedient, but they were God's people and they were an example to the world (which was sometimes good and sometimes bad). We Christians believe that out of that people came God's chosen Messiah, who opened the door for everyone, not just the Jews, to enjoy the privileges of being the people of God. So how, then, is it possible for someone to be a Christian apart from this people? It seems to be the very definition of being a Christian. It is as inconceivable as someone in the Old Testament following the teachings of Yaweh but not calling themselves a Hebrew.
ReplyDeleteAll that being said, I agree that there are a whole lot of "Christians" who don't really embody the teachings of Christ. But to believe that we can simply dissociate ourselves from them doesn't make any sense Biblically. As you said in another post, being a Christian is pretty simple -- there are only a few essential doctrinal issues that tie us together. Unfortunately that leaves room for scads of hate-filled, judgmental, anti-everything Christians. I'm not sure what to do about that, but we're in this together.
I guess my point is that we as a society in America place a lot of value in individual liberty, but the Bible doesn't really support that. Becoming a follower of Christ isn't a personal journey of discipleship as much as it is losing your individual self to become part of the Kingdom of God. That means, of course, we are part of a dysfunctional family full of wackos and sinners, but also full of faithful and humble servants.
Thanks for posting this.
Great thoughts, Duane. Though I place great value in individual liberty, I agree that it is not something the Bible is all that big on. We definitely have a lot to learn from the Christian community the Bible presents. And I agree that trying to follow Christ while disassociating ourselves with this community "doesn't make sense" in the Biblical context.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome!